Perfectionism in Pole Dance
In this episode of 'Science of Slink,' Dr. Rosy Boa revisits a previously aired discussion focused on the negative impacts of perfectionism, particularly in dance and movement. Dr. Boa highlights her personal journey of recognizing exhaustion and avoiding burnout, using it as a teaching moment for her audience. The episode delves into the definition and harmful effects of perfectionism, drawing from psychological research and personal anecdotes. Listeners are encouraged to be aware of perfectionistic tendencies and seek professional help if necessary. Tips for finding enjoyment in movement and restructuring goals to foster a healthier mindset are also provided. The episode stresses the importance of mental health and self-compassion in achieving sustainable, lifelong movement.
Chapters:
00:00 Introduction and Episode Context
01:27 Thanking the Members
02:13 Perfectionism: An Overview
03:30 The Psychological Impact of Perfectionism
05:28 Perfectionism in Dance and Movement
18:22 Strategies to Combat Perfectionism
27:31 Conclusion and Final Thoughts
Sources:
-Frost, R. O., Marten, P., Lahart, C., & Rosenblate, R. (1990). The dimensions of perfectionism. Cognitive therapy and research, 14, 449-468.
-Further reading: https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/ba...
-"Canadian prima ballerina Karen Kain acknowledged that perfectionism meant that she enjoyed a very small percentage of her more than 10,000 professional performances" Flett et al 2014
-Hill, A. P., Mallinson-Howard, S. H., & Jowett, G. E. (2018). Multidimensional perfectionism in sport: A meta-analytical review. Sport, Exercise, and Performance Psychology, 7(3), 235.
-Hall, H. K., & Hill, A. P. (2012). Perfectionism, dysfunctional achievement striving and burnout in aspiring athletes: The motivational implications for performing artists. Theatre, Dance and Performance Training, 3(2), 216-228.
-Flett, G. L., & Hewitt, P. L. (2014). The perils of perfectionism in sports” revisited: Toward a broader understanding of the pressure to be perfect and its impact on athletes and dancers. International Journal of Sport Psychology, 45(4), 395-407.
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Transcription:
Hello, welcome to Science of Slink, the Evidence-based pole podcast with me, your host, Dr. Rosy Boa. And this week I've actually got a remaster of a previous episode for you rather than a whole new episode. Because to be frank, I just finished launching Essentials of Slink my lightweight home pole membership.
It was a lot of work. Uh, this is a short week 'cause it’s a holiday in the US and I'm tired. Right. And I think there was a point in my life where I would have pushed myself anyway to record an entirely new episode and just ignore the fact that I don't really have the capacity and start sneaking towards burnout, little tippy toes in that direction and.
I'm not doing that shit anymore and hopefully I can be a good model for those of y'all who struggle with the same thing. I know it's a lot of us, especially the type of nerd that likes to come nerd out and do pole dance with me. So remaster of this episode, which is extremely important and I reference all the time, so if you haven't listened to it before or even if you have reacquaint yourself. Uh, and I'm gonna be talking about perfectionism and why it is not a good thing. It isn't. And if your hackles are immediately up and you're like, but my perfection is, it makes me better at stuff, buddy. I got the research for you. That is going to be perhaps a little bit eye-opening on that front.
Specifically around dance and movement. So very, very relevant to what we do.
But before we get into it, I do wanna say thank you to my members. Y'all make this happen. Uh, so my Science of Slink members who are, down for the whole thing, uh, that includes all my, all my classes, all my workshops, all my, self-paced courses.
And of course my new Essentials Slink members who are, we're just doing an hour a week, right? We we're showing up for what we've got capacity for.
And I did have a question about this recently. Both of my memberships are just open all the time. You can join whenever you like. You are an adult. You know what your schedule is, you know what you have capacity for. So if it makes sense for you, join. If it doesn't, don't join. If you're like, I've got time this month, but not next month. Join for one month. Come on out, come back in. Right. I really wanted to be flexible. I'm, again, I work with adults.
You you'll know your own business. So with that outta the way. Perfectionism what it is, why it's not good, what you can do about it. And I really hope that if you need to hear this it lands for you. And I'm really looking forward to hopefully dancing with y'all at some point in the future.
Enjoy.
Welcome to a very important episode that some of you are not going to enjoy. And if you don't enjoy it, probably you are the people that I'm talking to, because today I want to talk about perfectionism and Why that's not a good thing, how, like what it is, how to figure out whether or not it's actively hurting you, because for a lot of people it is and then some tips and tricks and strategies for helping to reduce the negative impact of maladaptive perfectionism in your dance life.
I'm going to say as usual, I'm not a medical doctor. I'm a research doing kind of doctor. And a lot of the things that I'm going to talk about here, if I'm talking about things and you're like, Hey, that's me. Speak to a mental health professional. I think this is a place where, you know, help is really going to be available and also be able to help you just be happy in your life.
So that's the, the first little bit. Also I'm going to very briefly mention Eating disorders and self harm about like that amount of mention but just a little heads up. So perfectionism. There's this quote from Martha Graham that I'm going to read here, but if you've taken class with me, I might've mentioned at some point.
No artist is pleased. There's no satisfaction, whatever, at any time. There's only a queer, divine, whatever, Dissatisfaction, a blessed unrest that keeps us marching and makes us more alive than the others. And I think part of that gets at something that can be helpful, right? And that's that desire to strive, that desire for things to be better, this artistic vision you have that you're trying to achieve as a dancer and a mover.
I think that's good. I think that's a great driving force, right? That's internal motivation, intrinsic motivation, if you will. But also some of this is bullshit, right? Like there's no satisfaction, whatever, at any time. Imagine having a career, right? Martha Graham was a very well known modern dancer, if you're not familiar with her developed sort of a whole score of school of choreography and thought and movement, right?
And here she is saying that she is never satisfied with her work. She gains no satisfaction from it, no enjoyment from it, I would say, based on sort of the context of the quote. And if that's something that you recognize in yourself, you recognize this constantly working at things and never taking enjoyment from them.
This is for you. And if it's not, I mean, keep listening. Cause there may be other people in your life. And also it may be something that may show up for you at some point and good to, good to know about. I don't want that for you. I don't want that for any dancer. I don't want that for any mover. I don't want that for any athlete, more generally, right?
Like, that's not a healthy relationship to have to movement, especially if you are a recreational mover. Especially if you're doing this for fun. This is a fun hobby. It should be satisfying. It should be enjoyable. It should make you feel better in the long run. Physically and mentally, it should not be a net negative to your mental health.
And I think a lot of times something that could make it a net negative to your mental health and that I see a lot in pole dancers is perfectionism. So what is perfectionism? This is actually something that's been really heavily studied in psychology. And there's a bunch of like theoretical frameworks and different facets of it.
I'm not going to get super duper into it. But sort of a general consensus description that I see a lot is that perfectionism is a combination of, you've got really high standards, right? Of your own work, not necessarily of other people's, right? You want things to be perfect and also really harsh Self evaluations, right?
You want things to be here, and also whenever they're not there, and again, this isn't just like a bar that you're setting in your mind that is perhaps unachievable, you really latch onto all those flaws, you really notice everything that's not the way that you want it to be in your head, and you really fixate on those.
And those are sort of two facets of perfectionism, and if you can just have the first without the second, I don't think it's an issue. But I see a lot of the second. Let me tell you, right? Like every time someone's like, I got my goal moves that I've been working on for two years and here's all the things that's wrong with it.
Like, no, I want you to celebrate getting your goal moves. That's a great moment. You've been working on it so hard. You finally achieved it. That's fantastic. I want you to celebrate that without immediately tearing yourself down. And then if you see that in somebody over and over again, that tells me that this is not helpful to them.
This is maladaptive perfectionism. And I think it's also helpful to think about this as opposed to something like conscientiousness, right? So if you're not familiar in the ocean, the big five model of personality and psychology, conscientiousness is one of the traits it's associated with. It's not like being nice to people.
That's agreeableness. Conscientiousness is being very responsible, wanting to do a good job, being hardworking, being very goal directed, everything like that. So conscientious people tend to really enjoy work for its own sake because they have a goal. They tend to be hardworking. You can think of perfectionism as sort of like the, end of conscientiousness to the point where it becomes a net negative to your, your wellbeing.
And that's an issue, right? And it's also associated with, we've talked about a couple of times on the podcast about locus of control, which is this, this idea of, you know, What controls your life and your environment and your situation and people who have an internal locus of control think, Oh, I do.
And in some instances that can be really helpful because it means you feel empowered to make changes in general. It's associated with greater emotional wellbeing. But if you have an internal locus of control, you have a belief that this is, you know, you are responsible for everything in your life.
And also you have unbelievable. unachievable standards that you're always pushing towards. And you have this belief that, hey, I'm the one who can do everything. So I have to do this. So if I don't do it, it's 100 percent my fault. That's where we get into the issue where it becomes maladaptive, where it comes not good for you.
Right? So I know I'm just saying like, it's bad. Let's talk about a little bit, some of the research about how it's bad and why I don't want this for students. I say students. I don't really want this for everyone, right? Like it gets to a point where it's just not good for your mental health and where it can really lead you to push yourself physically past your limits in a way that's not healthy and leads to long term deterioration of your body.
And one of the student values, it's got too many little clips to pull up, but one of my student values is sustainable, lifelong movement. And I think perfectionism is one of those things that really, really harms that as a goal for you as a mover. A couple of reasons why it's not good. And there's a couple of really helpful reviews of this.
So in particular, I'd recommend first of all, the, the original Flett and Hewitt paper, The Perils of Perfectionism in Sports. And then they revisited it in 2014, The Perils of Perfectionism in Sports revisited, basically. And their sort of central premise there is that There's been a lot of people in the research saying like, Hey, here's the clear deleterious effects of perfectionism.
But also sometimes there can be some benefits. And I would say that at least for me, and again, I'm not a psychologist. I just, you know, sometimes into parties with them back in, back in my research days, at least for me, if it's getting to the point where it's having any deleterious effects on you, I think it's, It's something worth considering and I'm coming at this as a coach, right, I'm coming at this as a teacher.
If I'm starting to see these patterns of behavior and thought in somebody that I'm working with, I'm going to try and point them out and try and help them get over it because it's not good for you as a mover. Let me be more specific when I say that. So a big thing is it's a source of chronic stress.
And we know, you know, stress is associated with long term, lots of negative health impacts, right? Cardiovascular issues just sort of low grade inflammation of the body in general. Back pain one of the, the things that we have the most, the strongest causal evidence for, for causing back pain is actually levels of stress and not like sitting weird.
In general, that's the sort of the strongest causal effect we, we have. So I think we all know stress is not great for you and chronic stress is the worst kind, right? Cause that's stress that just never goes away and it's constant. I can be perfect. I'm pushing myself to be perfect. I'm noticing every time I don't think I'm perfect and I'm like beating myself up for it.
Huge source of chronic stress. No good for you. No good physically, like this will manifest physically. It will lead to changes in your physiology. And also in terms of mental health. not great. And it's perfectionism specifically is associated with a lot of really not great mental health outcomes. So it's really associated with depression.
It's really associated with anxiety. It's really associated with risks of self harm eating disorders. There tends to be a strong relationship between perfectionists.
It's a huge risk factor for suicide in particular, so perfectionism is associated with all of these really negative long term outcomes because of sort of the pattern that puts you in that sort of thought of constantly beating yourself up, basically, and then having this very unrealistic expectation for yourself that you are constantly striving to achieve.
And it also really steals your ability to enjoy your accomplishments. And again, especially as someone who's teaching people who are doing poll for fun, this is the thing that just fucking breaks my heart every time I see it. And I see it so, so much. And here's a little this is a quote from Flat It All 2014, The Perils of Perfectionism Revisited.
I think this is something that a lot of poll dancers are going to see themselves in. Canadian prima ballerina Karen Kane acknowledged that perfectionism meant that she enjoyed a very small percentage of her more than 10, 000 professional performances. Yeah. So this is someone who is a professional dancer doing it every day.
It's the thing, presumably, that she loves more than anything else in the world. And she's not enjoying it. She doesn't enjoy that sense of accomplishment. She doesn't have a sense of accomplishment because it's so rare for her to actually meet that sort of like sense of perfection. And it seems again, sort of based on this, the same paper, there seems to be like this belief that Hey, if I can just be perfect in this one area of my life, all the All of my other issues will go away.
Everything will be fine. Right? Like all my interpersonal issues will be fixed if I can be perfect in this way. And that's just not true, right? It's sort of similar to the, the sort of diet culture belief that gets pushed on folks that like, Hey, if you change your body in some way, you are going to love your body.
That's not true. If you're changing your body and you're not working on your love for your body. Your body will be changed. Your relationship with your body will not be right. Those are two separate things. And that sort of fallacy I think shows up a lot in people who are really struggling with perfectionism.
Also something that is extremely damaging when it's a coach or a teacher or a choreographer who's coming with this expectation of perfection Right. Because, you know, if I'm choreographing a piece and no, not everybody does it perfectly, well, then I'm the imperfect one. Right. And I think it can really lead people to push movers and dancers.
I think you see this a lot in dance, to be honest. Hopefully less in pull than other, other forms of dance, but I do think you see this a lot in a way that's not good for the actual, like, dancers themselves where they're really just pushed to try and be perfect because that's going to be a reflection on the coach or the teacher, and they want to be perfect, so any flaw in any person who is working with them is a flaw of theirs and you have this, like, really sort of, I don't know, like not very healthy dynamic, right?
Like the interest is not necessarily in the long term development and happiness and well being of the people that they're working with. So yeah, if that's, you know, if that's something you recognize in yourself as a, as a teacher definitely seek help because your students need you to. And if you recognize that in somebody that you have been working with, maybe be aware and just sort of be on guard for that.
And I think the the sort of the twist of the knife here is I think there's this assumption I would say that, hey, if you're really perfectionist, you really have these such high, high standards, at least you're going to have better outcomes. At least you're going to progress faster. At least you're going to be a better dancer, even if maybe you have these negative, you know, emotional, negative self health side effects, you know Okay.
Maybe that's the price you pay for being, you know, a super good pole dancer. Research does not back that up, unfortunately. So something that perfectionism at an, in the workplace is associated with is just lower productivity and lower output, because if everything has to be perfect, you're going to take so much more time on it.
And that is associated with lower overall performance in the workplace. There's also a little bit of evidence. So this is from Holland Hill, 2012. perfectionism, dysfunctional achievement, striving and burnout. Some self proclaimed perfectionist athletes actually progress slower because they are, they don't want to move on until they are completely perfect.
And I don't think stroke progress is necessarily really inherently bad, but if you are in a situation where what you are trying to do is progress quickly. And that's the main goal, right? So for example, learning a combination very quickly in a choreography based class, if you can't learn the combination quickly, that's gonna, even if you can, if you can do it quickly with mistakes, that's probably better than to do it very slowly with no mistakes, right?
In that particular situation. So not necessarily associated with faster learning and also, and here's a kicker, specifically perfectionist, perfectionistic concerns, right? That fear of making a mistake, feeling like you're not living up to your expectations right? Negative reaction to the perceived flaws, like watching a video of yourself and being like, Oh no, look at all the things I did wrong.
Has no positive correlation with performance. And this is based on Hill et al, 2018, multidimensional perfectionism in sport, a meta analytical review. So this is a meta analysis. So it's a review of a bunch of different studies who are looking at this and this sort of like beating yourself up for making mistakes doesn't make you better.
It doesn't improve your performance. What it does do is make you feel worse, right? It's associated with less enjoyment of the activity, more depression, more anxiety, greater negative affect. So it's like negative emotions positive emotions would be like happiness, negative emotions would be like sadness, right?
And overall, lower self confidence. So this like pattern of beating yourself up for making mistakes and living in fear and making mistakes doesn't help you in your sport. It makes you, well, it doesn't improve your performance in your sport. It does negatively impact your mental health, right? And like, I don't want that for you.
I don't want that for anyone, especially like the enjoyment of the activity. If you're doing something for fun, it should be fun. And if the thing that's keeping it from being fun is, your. Mindset where you're trying to reach this unrealistic standards, this perfectionistic standard. That's not good.
And that's a problem. And it's something that you should address because your long term enjoyment of what you are doing is so much more important than you getting that one perfect photo that you can hang on your wall. Perfection is not a thing that exists. It is a construct that you have that you're trying to work towards.
It's, you know, let's get Plato in here. It's the shadow on the cave wall, right? And you are hurting yourself trying to get to there. You are hurting yourself emotionally, and in a way that's going to end up hurting you physically as well. Like we talked about, chronic stress is not good for your body.
It's going to shorten your lifespan, right? Chronic stress is associated with reduced overall lifespan. And if you can't address that, you're not going to have fun and it's not going to help. Beating yourself up over mistakes doesn't make you a better dancer. It just makes you an unhappier dancer. And I don't want that for you.
And if that's something that you're really struggling with, it's something you should put time and energy into addressing. I really strongly believe it. And the first thing I would do You know, if you're like, hey, yeah, this is something that is negatively affecting me, is talk to a mental health professional particularly one who specializes in working with dancers or with athletes.
Someone who's done some sports psychology, I think, would be particularly helpful because this is something that shows up a lot in athletes, a lot in dancers, and helping overcome this hurdle can help you have a longer, You know, better feeling movement time in your life, right? I guess the very first step is like being honest with yourself.
Is this negatively affecting you, right? Like, are you constantly beating yourself up over perceived flaws? Can you, let's say, watch a video of yourself and consciously. Only notice the things that you've done well, notice the places where you've progressed, notice where you're strong, notice where you're flexible, notice where something felt good in your body, notice where you're finding your flow, and not constantly nitpick and find every single flaw.
The whole. The whole film that's going on is a bunch of mistakes, a bunch of flaws. And all you see is this bundle of flaws, this bundle of mistakes. It's tied up and not you as a beautiful, empowered mover who's doing something that they're passionate about. Who's doing something that they enjoy and who is enjoying the movement.
That's a problem. And that's something you should address and you will be so much happier for it. So working with a mental health professional, working with a sports psychologist. And I think there's some other things that you can do as well. So a big one is try to find and train in spaces where failure is normalized, where failure is fine, where it's not penalized, where you don't have external sources of expectation of perfection.
So I mentioned this is something that can show up in coaches and teachers. If you're working with a coach or a teacher who has this mindset and you are picking it up. Maybe take a step back from working with them. Maybe work with someone else for a while, right? Work in a space where it's okay to fail, where failure is necessary for progress, right?
That's just a fact. If you want to get better, you have to try things that are too hard for you to do and fail. But I'm not saying like immediately jump into doing, you know, pull flips your first day on the pole. That's not what I'm saying, right? A coach should help guide you to things that are sort of just outside of your, your envelope of tolerance.
Where it's going to take you a couple repetitions to get to it, but if you're never trying new things because failure is so heavily penalized in the space where you're training, that's an issue. Find a new space. And I think there's also definitely some reframing exercises that you can do. So one that I think can be really helpful for pole dancers is to not have nailing a move as a goal, right?
So if you're working towards something specific let's say. Jade split, right? I think that's something a lot of people talk about or inverting. I think inverting is a goal that a lot of people work towards instead of being like, all right, I'm going to invert by X date, say my goal is to spend, 10 minutes per practice session conditioning for inversions.
Right? My goal is to try two inversions per side, per practice section. So have something where you can achieve the goal by showing up consistently, rather than something where you have to nail something to achieve the goal, to have that feeling of success. Which, if you're really struggling with perfectionism, maybe you're not having that feeling of success.
And that's also a problem, right? You're kind of, Yeah. Yeah. You're not giving yourself the dopamine. You, you work so hard for it. Give yourself the dopamine. Be like, hell yeah, I am the shit. I did it. Good job me. And hopefully you're in a space where other people are also hyping you up and, and helping you celebrate your success with you, right?
That's ideal. Like that's what you should be having if you're training with other people. So reframing your goals from, I have this thing the way that it looks in my head, to I'm spending time working on this thing. Also really focusing on the things that you do well intentionally. So at the end of each training session, if you're keeping a training journal, which I recommend have a little, a little space at the end of each training session, where you're like, here's something that felt good.
Just one thing, right? Like here's something I succeeded at. Here's like, it could even just be like, I did a spin and I felt Beautiful half a second of weightlessness, and I enjoyed that. Even if the rest of the training session was crap, really force yourself to notice when you have done something good, remember it, and then write it down.
And don't write down the 10 things you did that didn't work. Write down the one thing that did work, because you're training your brain to be like, it's not working. I notice and remember successes. I noticed, remember things that felt good. Another thing that I highly recommend, especially if you are really on social social media and you tend to compare yourself to professional pole dancers who do this full time for work and are paid to perform.
Take a week. Take a month. Go through your feed. Mute all the professional performers. All of them. Mute them. You can just do it for a week. You know, whatever, whatever platform you're on, they usually have like a mute function. And intentionally seek out the accounts of people who are Your body type, your body shape, your body size, right?
If you've got really long arms, find really long arm people. If you got short little T Rex arms like me, try to find people who have short T Rex arms. They're sort of in your same age bracket that have sort of your your body type that have more or less your level of experience, follow them. Right.
Renormalize, recenter your sort of envelope of viewership, spectatorship, so that you are looking at people who are similar to you, and who are not professional poll performers, so that you can be like, oh, okay, this is what You A person who is in a body that is similar to me is doing right now. And this is what it looks like on them.
Right? Like, I'm just, I'm never going to look like Phoenix. I don't have her body type. I was never a professional dancer, right? Like she danced on Broadway. Like I'm just never going to look like Phoenix. So if that's what I have in my head, Phoenix Casri, by the way, if you don't follow her Do after your little detox period cause I think she's a very beautiful mover.
I think it's great to appreciate people's movement that, you know, you will never have in your body and be like, Oh, this is a part of the diversity of movement. Part of the diversity of bodies out there in the world. I can appreciate it. I can, you know, enjoy their art for what it is without feeling like I have to do that, right.
Being. Open, being receptive, seeing the beauty in other people's movement, but not in a way that removes your ability to see the beauty in your own movement, because that is such a struggle for so many people. And it is like I said, it just breaks my heart because I have, I have never seen a pole dancer in my life.
And I have watched. Thousands and thousands of hours of pole dancing and thousands and thousands of pole dancers. I've been doing this for a long time. I have never ever seen a pole dancer who I didn't have something that I appreciated about their movement. There is always, in every single dancer's movement, something that is unique, something that is interesting, something that is beautiful, something to appreciate.
And if you're saying to yourself right now, now, oh, but that doesn't apply to me. Rosie doesn't mean me. I fucking mean you. Look at me. Look at me. I mean you. You have beauty in your movement. You have something interesting and unique and textured and wonderful and vibrant in your movement that I want you to celebrate, and I want you to enjoy the way that I enjoy it as a viewer.
And if that's something that you are genuinely incapable of doing in pole dance or in any other sphere of your life, I really, really suggest seeking out mental health help to get you to a point where you can, because you're going to be so much happier and because. You deserve it. You deserve to have a nice time.
You deserve to enjoy your movement. You deserve to feel good and have fun while you're doing your fun hobby that you do for fun. Anyway, all right. So that's that's it for this rant with Mama Rosie about how you should be nice to yourself. And also like, I don't know, a big part of having enjoyment in pole dance, which for me, again, I work with recreational people.
That's the point. The point is to have a nice time. The point is to find enjoyment. A big part of it is It is that mindset part of it that mental health part of it and noticing when that's what's keeping you from having a good time. That's what's keeping you from having that appreciation and addressing it.
And if that's you, and if it is keeping you from having enjoyment and a thing that you are doing for fun, I really, really urge you. So I'm going to ask you to do some reflection. Be gentle with yourself about it, right? Like, perfectionism isn't a flaw. I'm not saying like, here's the thing that's wrong with you, person who's trying to be perfect in every way.
I'm saying that this is something that is If it's maladaptive, if it's causing issues in your life, I think it's something you should get help with, right? That's what I'm saying. Anyway, so that's what I got for you today. As always, citations are going to be in the notes. This is a huge rabbit hole.
There's been so much work done on perfectionism in sports and dance. It's one of those things that has been really studied in dance as well, which is nice cause it's relevant to us. And if it's something you're interested in learning more about, there's some papers down below, Definitely get to digging.
There's a lot out there. And if it's something that you're struggling with, best of luck. And I really genuinely hope that you can get to the point where it's not a struggle for you anymore. And instead is you don't constantly beast yourself up over flaws that only you can see. If you're just listening, I'm doing like the, the heart hands that kind of look like ASL for Vola.
Here, I'll do the I'm now I'm doing the one with my, my thumb and finger that's like a small heart. That's for you. Your dance is beautiful. I guarantee it. I guarantee it. All right. That's it for me. I'll see you in two weeks. Have a good time. Be nice to yourself. And yeah, maybe I'll see you in one of my classes and I'll talk with you very soon.
Bye!
