The Power of Freestyle Dance: A Conversation with Madame Daddy
In this episode of 'Science of Slink,' host Dr. Rosy Boa speaks with Sarah, known as Madame Daddy, about her journey into freestyle pole dancing. Starting with extensive dance experience in partner dancing such as Swing and Lindy Hop, Sarah found her passion in pole dancing in 2019. The conversation explores the transition from focusing on tricks to finding freedom in movement through freestyle. Topics include the importance of self-expression, autonomy in dance, and the unique, supportive nature of the pole dancing community. Sarah shares her experiences, advice for newcomers, and the significance of feedback and community support. Both Sarah and Dr. Rosy emphasize the value of experimentation, rest, and self-care in a dance practice, offering insights and inspiration for both new and experienced dancers.
Chapters:
00:00 Introduction and Welcome
00:44 Meet Sarah AKA Madame Daddy
01:16 Sarah's Freestyle Journey
03:39 The Art of Freestyling
11:20 Advice for New Freestylers
19:38 The Importance of Community and Feedback
22:56 Rest and Recovery in Pole Dancing
24:29 Conclusion and Final Thoughts
Transcript
Speaker: [00:00:00] Hello, welcome back to Science of Slink, the Evidence-Based pole podcast. I'm your host, Dr. Rosy Boa, here to nerd out as always, and we are continuing this week, or I guess with this episode, our set of case studies with Freestylers. So today I'm gonna be joined by Sarah, who some of y'all, um, I know is Madame Daddy. If you've been to the studio for a while, we'll probably have danced with in the past. Um, we had a really wonderful conversation about pole dance and freestyling and bodies and change. And, you know, obviously Sarah's experiences with all of those things.
I hope that you will enjoy listening as much as I did having it. And yeah, I'll see y'all in 2026 getting into the new year. I look forward to it and I'll talk to you then. Bye, enjoy.
Rosy: I am here with Sarah, AKA Madame Daddy, uh, who some of you may know from, uh, from the Instagrams, uh, or, you know, just being around doing pole stuff especially in, in Seattle. And you've been dancing with me actually [00:01:00] longer than the studio's been open. That is true. Yeah.
When, back when I was also in Seattle and I was teaching in person I was lucky enough to have you in some of my classes, which was a delight, and so happy for myself, very selfishly, that I've been able to, to continue that going forward.
Sarah: Oh, the feeling is very mutual.
Rosy: So thinking about freestyling, uh, for folks who, who don't know you, uh, if you wanna give a little bit of an injection, I, I will tell you all, Sarah is a very accomplished freestyler, right?
Uh, she's been in the game for a minute really enjoys you know, experimentation, pushing stuff, trying new things. And I'd love for you to, to give people a little bit of, a little bit of a sense of your own freestyle journey and. What it was like to go from not right, like baby, baby freestyler, no experience with it to, to where you are now.
Sarah: Okay. Yeah. Gosh. So I. It was like a little bit of context and background. Like I've been engaging in [00:02:00] various forms of dances for my entire life. So I've done like extensive partner dancing like Swing and Lindy Hop, um, and have done like many other varieties of dance. But I have never landed with the thing that I was like, oh, like this is my thing, right?
Like this is the. dance medium that speaks to me. Um, and then I started doing pole in 2019 and was like, this is it. This is the thing. This is what I've been looking for. And I've just been like addicted ever since. But I mean, when I first started, I think like a lot of people, like I was really focused on the tricks aspect, right?
Um, and like learning different moves and doing those moves. But then eventually it was like, oh. How do I incorporate these in a way that flows right and really connects them together And like, I'm learning this vocabulary, but what do I do with it once I have it? Um, and so the studio I was at, which you were teaching at at the time [00:03:00] offered a variety of freestyle classes.
And so the first one I ever took it, it was actually me. The instructor and one other student, and I had really like no idea what I was getting into. And luckily I still dance with her today. The instructor was lovely and guided me through it, but you know, there was a point in class where we did solo dances and she was like, I know this is your first freestyle class.
Are you comfortable doing a solo dance or you know, would you prefer to like dance with this other person? And I was like, you know what, Yolo, we're just gonna go for it. And I mean, the first time I did it waster like terrifying. Um, and even still today, I would say that like I. I still get nervous when I freestyle for other people, especially when I know that I have an audience and we're not just dancing in a big group, but like freestyling for me has been the thing that has been like so incredibly freeing.
And it has just completely changed how I relate to my [00:04:00] body, the people around me. It's just been a game changer and so I'm like. On this, we call it write our Dance journey. Um, and I'm on this journey and there's ebbs and flows to the dance journey. Um, but free styling is like really the place that I've, I've landed.
And so I've moved away a little bit more from like learning tricks so much. Um, I still take those classes and keep that stuff in my repertoire, but free styling is the place where I'm like, this is really what I wanna be doing. Um, it just does a ton for my mental health.
Rosy: Ah. Yeah, and I think a couple things that you, you know, you talked about are patterns that I've noticed in a lot of movers.
Particularly coming into pole and being really excited about tricks and like, listen, tricks are fucking fun. We love tricks. Nothing wrong with tricks. They do tend to be. More straightforward to teach. Usually just as an instructor, it's much easier to lead someone through. Here's how to do a spin that you know everyone has done and you have really good understanding of than it [00:05:00] is to be like, and here's how to release your inhibitions and find freedom and movement and lack of self-judgment.
Right? That's a much harder thing to move people through. But I think something you said that, you know, as you, you've had sort of ebbs and flows and things have changed, and obviously a couple things in the world are different now than they were in 2019. One or two, it's a couple. The thing that you said where freestyle is a thing that you keep coming back to That is absolutely something that I have noticed as well.
And even for myself, right? Like even if I don't have time to do a bunch of technical training, sometimes I do, sometimes I don't. Right? It varies. I always make time to freestyle and it's because it feels good and it also is. Really a place for me to exercise autonomy. Yeah. And I'm, I'm interested in getting your take on this as well, 'cause I know you have this rich dance background and so much of our sort of Western dance tradition is less than the partner dance, but like a, a lot of it is like, here's what you do, you're following someone else's things [00:06:00] and that can feel.
A lot less vulnerable than being like, and this is my thing that I'm doing right now. Yeah. So I'm, I'm wondering if you could te talk a little bit about that. Moment of transition from like, okay, I'm used to, uh, I think also with partner dancing, right? You have someone else there with you who's moving with you, who's also giving you, instruction.
It's like, we are doing this as a team and not necessarily this is me on a platter. How do you like it?
Sarah: I mean, like. A big part of freestyle for me is like the artistic ex expression. Um, like I am a very artistic person naturally and have like those types of leanings and I mean, you hit it on the head, right? That freestyling really gives you that autonomy in a lot of ways. And like, again, I've taken a ton of different types of dance and I have dabbled in ballet over the years.
And finally recently came to the realization that I was like, this is just not for me. Um, it's just not something that [00:07:00] I enjoy and it's. Largely because of the repetitiveness, the rigidity you know, you're never going to be perfect enough at it. And free styling. Like I can take things that I've learned from different areas of dance and bring them in, but it doesn't matter how I'm doing them.
Right. It doesn't have to be like, oh, you're arabesque wasn't high enough. You're turnout isn't good enough. Um, I bring those things in as. A way to self-express, um, knowing that there are no limitations and like that in and of itself is super freeing. But yeah, I mean, just being able to express creatively in that way and be like, I'm just gonna fuck around and find out.
Like one time I was doing a warmup and I just gave myself a rule where I was like, I'm gonna do this entire freestyle warmup. Without touching anything in the room except for my own body, so I wasn't allowed to touch the floor. The pole. The walls with my hands, um, I could use other body parts, right? And that was just like a fun thing that I got [00:08:00] to do because I felt like it and nobody had to tell me.
And I fucked around and I found out and I was like, Ooh, there's some really fun, like, interesting pathways that I found as a result of this that I might wanna come back to later. Right. Yeah
Rosy: yeah. And really finding play, right? And yes. And there's, there's something you said in there and we, we talked about autonomy, but also I'm hearing a lot of themes of self-acceptance, and being like, Hey, I. I, I know those of y'all who are my, my students that have been in class or have listen to the podcast a lot, you know, I, perfectionism is like, if I could walk into people's lives and just like stab one mental health problem, uh, particularly for dancers that I think would help everybody.
Perfectionism is on the list of my dragons living list. But yeah, coming out of that space of being told that you were being held to something unachievable. Because that's what, that's the point, right, of the [00:09:00] training is to push you as closely unachievable thing as you can and shifting to a space.
And this is, it's hard to do this, and I know that you, you are here because you've done so much work on it where you're like, yes, I can see that I am not this other thing. I can see those differences and I also accept them. Yeah. And it's fine. Just the case. Yeah.
Sarah: Yeah. And like, I love, oh my God, I love, love, love dancing with people who are newer in their pole dancing journey.
Just because like they. Bring interesting movements that we might not typically see for folks that have been training longer, right? Like e like we have certain moves and patterns that we see or we utilize and pull. But when people are newer, they don't have those things ingrained in them yet. And so they have different ways of moving that are super inspiring.
And so I know when people are newer, like it can be really intimidating too. Freestyle dance or to dance with people who have more experience. But I love being in those [00:10:00] spaces with them and it's just incredibly beautiful to watch. Getting to see their journey and also like learning from and with 'em.
Rosy: Absolutely. Yeah. I cross poleination I think is a great way of thinking about this, right? Yeah. Like, monocultures are just not healthy in terms of like larger ecosystem, uh, standpoint, but also like in the ecosystem of your movement, your art and your expression, you want a lot of different things. Um, and I agree people who are coming in.
And even if you don't have a dance background, right, you have the other movements that you have done in your life that are informing you and how you walk through the world. Uh, and those will show up in your dance and that's good. That's beautiful. It's a, it's a mirror. It's a, um. You know, if we're talking about pole being a vocabulary that we build up, right, the, the rest of your life is what helps you take that vocabulary and write poetry with it.
Uh, you're not, a dance robot. I've seen dance robots. They're very offputting. They're not people. I, I'm talking about actual robots here. I'm not, I'm not making fun of any particular type of person. [00:11:00]
Sarah: I'm gonna have to look up dance robots.
Rosy: Oh, okay. Every so often, some. Robotics pro is like, I'm gonna make a robotic pole dancer.
And it's always just like, anyway, it's awful universally unappealing, uh, to me as a person who enjoys pole dance, but I don't know, but just 'cause I like humans possibly Damn. Yeah. And, uh, so you, you mentioned you really joined dancing with, with new dancers, and I mean, it's been a while since you were one, but what maybe little nuggets of advice or wisdom you have someone who maybe is new to Pole entirely or, and is interested exploring free dance, or has been poleing for a while and is like, okay, I'm ready.
I'm gonna, I'm gonna dip my toes in to this, this water of, uh, of self-expression and freedom.
Sarah: Gosh, so many things come to mind. I mean, I think. As far as free styling goes, just jump in and do it. And don't be afraid that you're not doing it right or that it looks wrong because there is no right and wrong.
Um, it's a freestyle and it is what you make of it. It's your experience. [00:12:00] And like I had an experience where I was at a studio locally in person and it was a freestyle class and so they would give prompts and you know, you would dance. To those prompts, and then the instructor would, you know, comment or give feedback afterwards.
And I would consistently get the feedback, um, whether either like directly at me or indirectly at me. I always knew that like, well, you should look at your audience. And I like, it bothered me so much that I just stopped going to that class because like, I didn't wanna tell the instructor because I didn't wanna be flippant in class, but like, you are not my audience.
The audience is me. If I choose to have an outward being, be my audience, then great. And I hear that, but frequently, like I am dancing for myself. And so I don't need to look at you like that's none of your business. If I, if I am giving you the gift of my dance, please accept it. But. I think just jumping in and going with it and not being afraid [00:13:00] to experiment.
I think one of the things I appreciate about great dance instructors like yourself, um, is that you give prompts that spark creativity and leave room for interpretation so that people can interpret those. However it is, right? You're not saying like, okay, I want you to do like X amount of things in this amount of beats.
It's no, like think about what it feels like to be fire or lava or whatever it is. And sometimes it can feel a little bit weird to lean into those things, but the more that you lean in, the more you. Discover and explore. In fact, I was in a class, I think it was last week, where I jokingly told the instructor, I was like, what if we, what if you just yelled different breakfast food names at us and we have to freestyle of whatever our interpretation of that breakfast food is?
And it was. Number one, hysterical. I laughed so hard. And then by the end of it I was like, oh, this is like really good core engagement because like, [00:14:00] my abs hurt because I'm laughing while I'm moving. Um, but also like, it was just interesting and like it really lit up my brain, my body, like, went into some weird movements I might have not have done otherwise.
So yeah, even if it feels awkward, like just go for it. Yeah.
Rosy: Yeah. I think that's, uh, fantastic advice. Um. The, the thing that I think about, like a, that a good freestyle class should have a should be emotional component, right? It should be a place where you feel safe trying wit. Uh, B, there should be a gentle push, right?
I want you to try things that you wouldn't necessarily otherwise do just at home. By yourself in your room. 'cause like you could freestyle right now, you could be freestyle when you listen to this podcast. I don't know. You, you don't need another person to tell you to freestyle, right? So part of the value is that cross poleination, doing new things and then c you know, time to play, time to fuck around, right?
Like, I wanna give you some colored pencils and like a nice comfortable space to be in and, uh, a big blank page and then [00:15:00] find out what you come up with.
Sarah: Yeah. Yeah. And I think like another thing that I just thought of is that. Like not, you're not, you may not get satisfaction or what you were seeking out of every single dance, and that is okay too.
Like I've definitely come away from classes where I was like, huh, I didn't love the way that that felt. And like, I am fine with that because it's also a teaching moment where I sit with it and I'm like, huh? Like, is this because of some other stuff that's happening in my life? Is it just because I wasn't.
Feeling into my dance that particular day or I wasn't sinking in. But those are also super teachable moments and something that I lean into and think about actively. Like I still to this day keep a pole journal, um, and just take notes on things that I am noticing in my dance or things that I wanna work on, whatever.
Which is another piece of advice, keep a pole journal. It's like such a cool thing. Like I still sometimes will look back and be like, oh yeah, I was working on this thing, which maybe I'm still working on. Maybe I've [00:16:00] accomplished a goal, whatever. But being able to like look back and also when you like film your dance, right?
That's another type of pole journal kind of. Um, and just seeing like your growth over time and maybe some patterns that you stick with or patterns that you break out of, or things you wanna revisit can be really cool.
Rosy: Yeah, absolutely. A hundred percent. Keep a pole journal. Yeah, and I think the, the point that you made about not everything is gonna feel good.
Not every class is going to be amazing, is a fantastic world as well. And I would say just from a, a training standpoint, if what your goal is as a mover is to get better at freestyle and to try more different things a good sort of like. Breakdown is that about 30% of stuff should feel amazing. About 30% of stuff should be like, okay, but a little bit of a stretch and about 30% of stuff you should be like, not for me, man.
I tried that. Mm-hmm. Like I had a, a song and a playlist recently. And uh, afterwards a student emailed me and was like. I did not enjoy the house music. I thought I might like it like we did. So I was [00:17:00] like, not for me. Uh, and you've learned something, right? It's again, I, I think the value of a class value training with other people is the experimentation.
And if every experiment is going well and coming out correctly, just like, as a scientist, I'm suspicious, are you yourself, actually, and it's okay if you're not right. It's okay if you're in a stage in your life where you're not looking to experiment and track new shit. But if you are, then some, sometimes it should be like, mm mm mm
Sarah: Yeah.
And that's another thing I love about dancing with other people is like getting more music into my life and different music and dancing to things that I might not normally. Especially, especially actually things that I don't like, because that's not, again, if I was pulling it home, that's not the thing that I would put on.
But since it's here, I'm going to lean into that and be like, okay, like I don't love this, but what's gonna come out of it? I don't know. Let's see. Yeah, it's always, it's always interesting when a song comes on and I'm like, Ooh, don't love it, but let's dance it out. [00:18:00]
Rosy: Yeah. Yeah. And you may, I'm not gonna say you're gonna learn to love things that you don't love, but for me, just to give you an example, so hard for me to dance to eighties music, man, I don't know what it is.
It just feels cheesy. I wasn't around for the eighties. I'm aging myself pretty precisely here. I wasn't around for the eighties. And it. I found it very, very, very hard to connect with for many, many, many years, like well over a decade. And it's only sort of in the last couple years that I've been able to sort of like whatever it was inside me that was clenched by that it has been slowly unc Unclenching a little bit.
And now sometimes I can have a little bit of fun with an 80 song. Um, and that has been. Journey. It's been a lot of trying and it's just not working. But, you know, I keep trying it and usually only when other people bring it 'cause I don't usually bring it for myself. Uh, and it's, it's taught me some things about myself as a mover and myself as a dancer, and also just sort [00:19:00] of, um, you know, what I like, what I don't like.
And that's an important part of the exploration.
Sarah: I've been noticing recently that like, people like oh, words are failing me. Like Chapel Rone, um, Taylor Swift are really big right now. And so sometimes those songs will come up in the studio and I apparently do not enjoy dancing to like, contemporary pop music.
Like that is not my jam. Um, and so like everybody else is just like rocking out and having a great time, and I'm like, in my mind in agony. I'm like, oh my God. Okay. But I moved through it.
Rosy: Well, and you've learned something, right? Like if you are doing a performance, not a song, you're gonna pick. Totally
Yeah. Awesome. So I wanna be mindful of your time and make sure that we're not going super long, but if you had one thing that you really wish that anyone interested in free styling could know or think about or maybe try a suggestion, what's something you'd be like, Hey folks, check this thing out.
Do this thing. Think about this. This is cool.
Sarah: Besides taking classes with [00:20:00] you,
Rosy: I did not, how to say that? I don't think my classes are good, but
Sarah: shameless. Um, there's so many things. Again, I think just leaning into it and taking the classes and doing it even when it feels uncomfortable. Um, and then definitely like.
Seeking feedback. You were excellent at giving feedback to folks, but I know that like that's not always the case. And so when it feels like, psychologically safe and comfortable to do so, you know, seeking feedback from your instructor or your fellow students, and it doesn't have to be like, was that good?
But something along the lines of like, Hey, like. What did you see? What did you notice? I love both giving and receiving feedback in that respect because we can often be like our own harshest critics, obviously. Um, and when I hear from somebody else, like what they saw, it's so illuminating. And oftentimes when I'm like that [00:21:00] didn't feel great.
And they were like, oh my God, that was so beautiful. I loved when you did X, Y, Z things. And I'm like, oh. Oh, and it just like helps lift that lens of self-doubt and judgment. And can really just like, give you some insights that you might not have gotten otherwise.
Rosy: Yeah. Yeah. I find especially other movers, right?
'cause we fucking get it, man. Our. Not always, but can be the kindest mirrors and also the mirrors that show us, the magic, the angles that we never see for ourselves, that we don't appreciate about ourselves. So I think that's a wonderful thing. Find a community wherever you are. Find a community and, uh, totally yeah.
Sarah: Of them, which I think is like. Now that I'm reflecting on it is like a little bit unique to the pole community. I won't say this about like all dance communities, but you know, frequently when you're in like a, a typical, let's say, dance class, like you're not going to hear from your fellow students like, oh my God, that was beautiful.
That was really cool. That looked like X. But [00:22:00] I feel like in pole we generally speaking have like a very supportive group of humans, um, that like. Sometimes I'm in class and somebody does a trick for the first time and everybody else is like, yes, fuck yeah. Like, you did it right. And I just like love that, that supportive community.
Rosy: Uh, yeah, definitely. I, uh, this is gonna sound sort of weird, but I feel like, uh, bboying and b girling and I don't know what the gender neutral term is. BBB Breaking, breaking, I guess Breaking, yeah. Uh, it's kind of similar, right? Yeah. Like you have people on the sidelines who like call out really cool things and it's not all like, we love that sometimes it's like, oh.
I don't know any specific people, but like, you know, Timothy mc Jones did that same thing in 1989 and you are clearly copying or whatever. But yeah, I do think celebration in community, again with other people who fucking get it, is, um, is important. It's, it's enriching, it's nourishing, it's, uh, uplifting.
Sarah: Yeah. And I think like the one other thing that keeps sticking in the back of my head in [00:23:00] terms of like advice for people, this isn't about freestyle necessarily, but just kind of about pole training in general is like, don't overtrain been there, done that have hurt myself. Yeah, it can lead to bad, dangerous things.
So like please, please, like take rest days. Listen to your body cross train. Eat, drink, like fuel yourself both mentally and physically so that you continue doing the thing that you love. Yeah.
Rosy: Yeah. I think, uh, this is a very simplistic way of thinking about it, but if you are going into each training session, sore from the training session before, you are not resting and recovering enough.
Totally.
Sarah: Yeah. And like I've been learning the hard lesson just like in life recently or relearning the hard lesson. 'cause I feel like I do this a lot where like rest. Is so important. Like I went through a few weeks at work where I was working like nine to 15 hour days and my body totally crapped out on me.
I got sick, I was just exhausted. I, you know, couldn't [00:24:00] focus. And then as was, as a result, I couldn't go to dance. And that sucked. Right? Yeah. Rest is just so important and I think it's something that is very undervalued in our, our society.
Rosy: Yes, absolutely. Uh, something I've also been challenged with recently, especially resting before you go to Zero, and especially I know out there my non-neurotypical folks, we love to push ourselves very, very, very hard and ignore our bodies, and there's a price for that that you don't want to pay.
Oh, awesome. I think this is where I'm gonna wrap the conversation for today, even though we could keep talking forever. But thank you so much for joining us today, Sarah, folks who are listening, I hope you found this an enriching enlivening, uh, conversation. You got some, some little, little nuggets of wisdom to, to take away with you.
And if you're like, I should do some free stylin. Do some free stylin. It's fun. I was gonna say, we don't bite, but I've definitely seen how... we don't bite online, how's that
I can't speak for other venues.
Sarah: [00:25:00] Valid. No biting without consent. How about that?
Rosy: Yes. Yes. No non-consensual biting.
Sarah: Oh my goodness. But yeah
