The Evidence - Based Pole Podcast: How to know what you want

In this episode we are joined by Kelsey Britt, who in addition to being a yoga teacher is also a somatic sexuality educator! We talk about her movement history, how she came to be a sexuality educator, and what her job is as a somatic sexual educator. Kelsey also shares ways to be present in your body and how to give yourself permission to explore!

You can find Kelsey Britt’s here https://www.kelseybritt.com/ and follow her on Instagram for more great tips and education https://www.instagram.com/kelabrii/

The Evidence-Based Pole Podcast aims to help pole dancers feel better on and off the pole by talking with experts and diving into relevant scientific research to find evidence-based insights we can apply to our pole journeys. It’s a production of Slink Through Strength, the inclusive, evidence-based online pole studio, which can be found online at slinkthroughstrength.com.

Transcript (apologies for the roughness)

hey pole dancer welcome to the evidence-based poll podcast my name is Rosie boa I'm a pole dancer poll teacher and personal trainer and I've started this podcast so that we can learn together talk with the experts read the research and feel better on and off the poll so if that sounds like something you're interested in doing let's go welcome today I am joined by Kelsey Britt a somatic sexuality educator and I know that that's not like exactly the precise type of knowledge and stuff that we've been discussing recently although you know we had that episode with Dr Tia the pelvic floor therapist recently which you know we did talk oh about about sex and that but I think part of the reason why it's important for folks in the pulse space in particular to think about sex and sexuality is because Paul is sexy it is inextricably linked with the sensual in our cultural muyu certainly here in the United States and it's something that affects us in our dance so even though you know Kelsey is not not a instructor she still works in the space so start off with Kelsey do you want to talk a little bit about your movement history you know how you came to be perhaps the sexuality educator and then also what is a somatic sexuality educator those are three words that come together what do they mean yeah great questions so my experience coming into the sexuality education or all this I'm kind of a long process but growing up I grew up in a very conservative part of the US in Indiana and received abstinence only definitely it was something that I was interested in and that I was experiencing and so when I got into college I started finally taking classes around sexuality and I got involved in research projects and a sexual assault advocacy group that was on our campus and afterwards I taught sex ed for a couple years in middle schools and high schools and so that was very much into the realm of like birth control STIs healthy relationships and set all that stuff and that work was really important and impactful for me but I think what I realized since then is that we are missing the body from a lot of which is a huge and so for me that's kind of how I started feeling more interested and bringing the body into my work and to bringing that to other folks and I had a very I guess personal experience with that as well in terms of getting into it where about three years ago I started doing yoga a little bit more in my personal life I'd been dabbling in it for the past decade but three years ago I started practicing more and it brought me a lot of feelings of safety and resilience that I had recovering from sexual assault like that was really important to me finally feeling safe in my body to be able to make choices about my body and that was because I was taking the classes online I was able to choose the instructors and say choose like what type of flow I was doing and I could open up opt out of it at any time which is really important and I also didn't feel that pressure to be doing the forms in a certain way to be super flexible which is something that had kind of steered me away from yoga in the past and then I also started noticing that it was making me feel more present in my body in a way that I had never felt before like I had the first like mid pandemic and I was walking across the carpet and my house and I just like felt the sensation of the carpet on my feet in a way that I had never felt before and over time I started realizing that not being able to be present in my body was making an impact on my sex life in terms of like being able to really and when distracting thoughts started to come up I could kind of the whole thing about it is when I started recognizing those things in my own life then I started kind of wondering whether that's something that other people had experienced too and turns out it is there's a lot of research backing the impact of trauma-informed yoga on survivors of trauma including sexual assault and also those really exciting research that's happening around the impact of mindfulness programs including something like mindful Movement Like yoga on people's eyes and I I think a lot of things you you mentioned they're probably going to resonate with poll students as well or in particular you know feeling like you're not going to be good enough flexible strong enough to to feel like you belong and also I mean obviously you mentioned sort of like being disembodied as a result of trauma but even if you've never experienced trauma and you know I hope that for everybody there are a lot of other factors that may lead you to have less of a connection to your body right so I know neurodivergence a lot of different types of you know ways of being in a brain will result in less coherent connection with your body I believe there's also been some work research on hypermobility and EDS that results in less connection to the body people who suffer from chronic pain so there's all sorts of reasons why you may not feel you know this tight connection and presence in your body in addition to trauma although of course trauma is one that affects a lot of folks for sure and there's even a lot of research that shows that women are just more unaware of their bodies it is something that really so you mentioned you know mindful movement you know paying attention to your body and people folks may not be familiar with this term somatic do you want to talk about it a little bit well I should say perhaps if you are a DND player you're familiar with it from DND I don't think that really gets to the you know the meat of the nut yeah so somatic is just a simple term is just just involving the body and within that realm I don't think everyone who works in somatic spaces necessarily adheres to this belief but I know there has been some theoretical work on the idea of the Soma which is not our physical body but our you know mental understanding of our physical body so if you're familiar with like perceptual homunculi I assume most people won't be but people are with them you know there's a relationship there as well but again I think that that's more like on the theoretical side and not everyone who works in a somatic fashion is necessarily gonna have strong opinions or beliefs about that so we talked about you know somatic we talked about sexuality education and obviously you're also a you a yoga teacher a yoga teacher I don't know what that is do you want to talk a little bit about what doing yoga with or or any sort of movement right I was you know tied to pull with the intent of bringing in sexuality means how does it look different from other movement or does it look different from other movement yeah for sure so I would say that my background with movement is primarily in dance I used to just take a lot of different dance classes including pull and it was something that I really loved doing but I think that and dance for me something that kind of kept me from being in my body is I was always thinking about the way that I look I was doing it so think about like how does this shape look am I doing it right am I like matching the music but I was just so focused on like how you know not how my body felt I was very out of my body and I think for me I think yoga was initially like that because taking classes like I said I was I know I would compare myself to people in terms of flexibility because I'm not super flexible I'm not like the super thin yoga person and so I don't know that was also really taking me out and that's not how yoga is really supposed to be yoga you know with its ancient roots and like South Asian cultures is really about the liberation of suffering and it's not about comparing yourself to other people or becoming the most flexible person but that's the way that white supremacy has you know crafted it in the US and other Western cultures and so I think for me over the past couple years with yoga but also something that I'm really trying to do with dance too when I'm dancing on my own is to really just be very present in my body and you know think about how each movement feels not how it necessarily looks although I think that can be especially if you're performing or when you are doing these moves or if you are in a yoga form like how does that specifically feel in the places on your body that are being stretched the places in your body that you're moving or pull like how is it feeling when you're you know hanging upside down and you're gripping on the pole and that's not always the best sensation but I think there's something that's really worthwhile and being present and and what they're telling you yeah absolutely to tie it back to sort of sexuality education the idea that we view movement particularly in like a commercialized Western setting through the external experience of that movement rather than the internal experience of that movement it really reminds me of oh I can't remember the exact quota who it's by you may but basically it was a feminist scholar who's like women and this is you know very binary thinking but women have a man in their head who watches them right like there's this like intern analyzed male gaze and a performative aspect to even things like walking around in the world eating right so that all actions are viewed through this external experience rather than the internal experience right or I'm going to talk about food for a bit so I'll I'll give a thumbs up if you're watching on on YouTube when I'm done talking about food but even the idea that when we eat food the important thing is how it changes our body for the expectations of others rather than our physical experience of eating and the fact that we need it to stay alive is that's messed up that that's really messed up also only yeah you're good we're done with that yeah it's it's so messed up and it identify and think about because it's so much a part of our lives like like with the example that you just gave like it's something that we do every day but you know we're thinking you know if you go on a date like how many of us monitor what we eat for that other person and choose to eat something that's not messy or something that is perceived as being healthier or in our sex lives you know we think about like you know when you're having sex with someone a lot of people will start doing what's called spectatoring so they'll start viewing themselves rather than you know being really like into whatever Sensations are happening and it's really it's devastating to me that this is something that like haunting us and almost like everything going on in our lives and it's so difficult to overcome because it's how women are socialized and it's something that's like ingrained from the time that you're a little girl learning what to wear and what is appropriate to wear and how to act around people who when we're adults and I think it also you know is very closely linked to trans misogyny as well right like my experience of your experience of Womanhood is less important than your actual embodied experience of Womanhood and yeah I often think about hey we're sort of going down a rabbit hole here but I often think about the fact that women are often sort of treated like consumer goods obviously it happens you know to other folks as well but you know particularly in a patriarchal society there is a lot around that right and that's you know including all women and you know Femmes and people who are perhaps against their will gendered as women and being treated as like you have to be in a specific way so that you are Pleasant to be consumed and that's your job and I think that in the pulse space in particular you know again thinking about women Femmes people who may be gendered as as female even against their will that's something that we really struggle with right like I I made a post a while ago that was like hey you you can be weird it's okay it is fine do the weird [ __ ] and someone on the on the post was like yeah but you gotta remember to point your toes I was like you absolutely do not absolutely you do not that is not a requirement right this is an expectation for that someone else has placed on you for their external experience of your movement and you know sometimes I point my toes when it because it feels good right especially if I'm stretching or if I'm pivoting on the ball of my foot I don't want my heel down because that dresses the ligaments of the knee in particular but lots of times I'm just doing it because I've been told to do it and not because I actually enjoy doing it and I think that that pulls in you know pull and other movements like yoga and you know obviously sexuality as well yeah it's I have like so many thoughts going on but thinking about women as like being socialized into being like consumer goods like I think about the clothes that we have to wear or that we're encouraged to wear like heels switch can be like extreme like some books the tight clothing that's very revealing and you know the way that like you're kind of tuned out to like how does this feel in my body and tuned into like will someone find this pleasing and even this idea that like you find it pleasing because someone else will find it please but when I think when we start tuning in to that our own wants our own desires which we first recognize in our body and our bodies and feelings you know we can start living a life that is more authentic and is where we're getting more of our needs met when I think about something like pull you know I think yeah some people do love doing those specific movements like in your toes or you know like creating that perfect shape but like that might not feel good in your body so is there a way that you can tune in into that and to think about like does this feel good in my body is this something I really want to be doing or is this something that I've seen on Instagram that looks like it feels good in someone else's body you know or something that I feel like I want to do because I'll be interesting or cool or you know liked if I am doing this yeah yeah I think that's I think it's a question that a lot of people may not have asked themselves before I don't know perhaps if you've been my student for a while and I've talked to you about something things you might be like yeah I think about what I want all the time but could you give us some pointers for and this is going to sound weird but figuring out what you want because we've talked about sort of like this layer of like outside experience and expectations and pressures and social pressures and even just like in a dance class like oh I have to do it you know a certain way in a yoga class I have to like go to the absolute extreme of my range of motion even if it doesn't feel good to be there so how can you start to unpick that how can you start to figure out what you really want I think that is such a tough question for a lot of people and can take a lot of time to answer and I think that it really comes down to giving yourself that permission to explore your body and to have curiosity about your body and I really recommend to folks that they find spaces that support that exploration and curiosity which is what I really love about like trauma informed yoga and incorporating trauma-informed practices into you know all movement classes because I think it's even for folks who don't have like Big T trauma I think we've all experienced places in our life where we've had our choices limited or we've been told to repress things in our body and so going into spaces where that teacher is telling you like you have choices you have options and like I'm really welcoming and celebrating that exploration I think is so important because I know that when you go into spaces and the person in charge is not providing those opportunities it's really difficult to go against that especially if you're in the beginning doing this for a while now and I still have difficulty if I go into a yoga class or a dance class that is very much like you need to do this and this way this time this is how it's supposed to look and so I think yeah I just encourage people to seek out those spaces and give yourself that permission to explore and to like feel it out and if it you discover it's you know that's not something you like that's information for you yeah absolutely I'm thinking especially in like the concept of freestyle and free dance a little little peel back the curtain for another structure my previous classes as there's a nice long warm-up and then we have two exercises and in the first exercise I will ask you to do something that gen really isn't gonna feel as good right so an example it's recently we're really thinking about our hips and I was like all right for this movement this dance I want you to try not to move your hips which especially in full very challenging yeah and then like contrasting that with an exercise I was like move your hips as much as you want to find that you know that tension and that that contrast there to figure out which feels good because I mean particularly if maybe if you have like a lot of ballet background maybe you've had a lot of training and having like a very upright stable carriage and not moving your hips is like yes what I like I don't like you know sticking my booty out that's just not for me which is perfectly fine right but you won't know until you explore and you really explore in a way that feels safe and comfortable for you so and that's like within the realm of free dance I'm not immediately like move your hips all right you have to grind three four five that's not the vibe it's like I swear in a way that feels good to you and I'm sure you know very similar in your yoga classes where you give options and you let people try stuff and figure out what they like yeah and the dance you don't like is the dance that teaches you what you don't like which is good and important yeah it is really important and just to give yourself that space to kind of you know like feel out through like the discomfort that might arise because I think that's the space that's really tricky because sometimes we do have these automatic like yeses like I really that feels so good I really want to do that and sometimes we have very automatic clear no of like I definitely don't want to do this like it's not right for me but I think there's a lot of space in the middle that it's you know not really clear like which way we want to go so giving yourself that space to like maybe you explore or maybe you stop for the day and you know not feeling Shame about that because I think sometimes we're often we don't feel good in because like everyone else in the class is doing it or you know maybe because the teacher has created that environment where they're making it difficult to opt out but really giving yourself that permission to just say no absolutely you're an adult well certainly if you're working with me I don't work with kids you're an adult you can always you know hit the bricks just get out of there you can leave at any time from any situation and movement class are no exception yeah and that's what I think is really for me why I chose to really start teaching about sexuality with movement is because I think it's a safer place to explore things that can be translated into the sexual realm because when you're with a partner you know it's really sometimes challenging to figure out what you're wanting and whether you want to keep going or if there's something you want to do and I think it can be challenging to share that with a partner too because of sex negativity because of fear of how they might react because of past traumatic experiences practicing these skills about like being able to really witness your Sensations and also being able to take action on those Sensations is something that I think is more low stakes in the movement class realm you know like if someone's taking a class with you and they decide they do not want to point their toes that day or you know they don't want to do a certain movement that's something that you're learning in the body in that moment that like it's okay to say no it's okay to choose not to do something and it's a place where your body is maybe rewriting scripts that it's been given in the past yeah absolutely and I mean you know particularly if you're in an in-person class I mean you know I'm I teach online I have students who just don't turn on their cameras and I am fine with that and I think that that can help remove that pressure that again you know when you're with a partner presumably you'd like them to have a good time and sometimes I think that that pressure can lead you to not notice whether or not you are having a good time yeah and I think that's a really big issue for people who've been socialized as women they're very focused on often on pleasing other people and that's you know the way they've been socialized but is also a survival mechanism for a lot of people and so having to kind of like help people form new scripts in a body of like it's okay to football you're feeling is important and is worthy of you know being respected and worthy of being explored yeah once again you know to bring it back to trauma particularly people who have developed Fawn as as a response which you want to talk a little bit about trauma responses folks may not be familiar with the terms I mean I think most people have heard fight or flight but there's other ones yeah like the people pleasing trauma response of in response to like real are perceived that the body goes into this like how can I drink how can I please how can I minimize this threat that's happening biting is you know I think often people think of that as a trauma response and as the acceptable one of like pushing someone away blah blah blah fleeing is like you're leaving the situation escaping in some way and then freezing is you know various things but you're maybe disassociating from your body you're feeling numb you're just really not present and so you know when people are recovering from trauma different things can Joe's responses even if it's something that's really small and I think that can often happen in a Like A movement class that's not being taught in a trauma-informed way like if an instructor comes and touches the student and makes an adjustment on them you know that student might look like they're on the outside they're fine like they don't say no they don't run away they don't punch the instructor or anything but inside they might be you know completely like melting down you know or freezing numbing out and so I think that's what's so important in these movement classes for instructors to know is like I think every instructor should incorporate some trauma-informed practices into their classes because you don't know what someone's experience is and you know we can't account for like every trigger that someone might have but trauma-informed spaces are really making an effort to you know open the space for people to give feedback and to try to minimize triggers so I know for me in my yoga classes they're online but I I don't play music I don't like candles I don't use straps and obviously I don't you know offer physical Cisco's online but even in my in-person workshops I don't give physical assists and different stuff like that to kind of address those responses that people might have and to create that safer space absolutely and I you know I would encourage everyone listening to you know also certainly there are basic expectations that I would have of a poll instructor right asking for consent before spotting unless there is if it is between stopping to ask for consent and stopping you from falling on your head I think that the you know the dial goes towards stopping you from falling on your head concussions are really no joke but you know for like minor stuff definitely you you don't want to be like touched without your consent in a poll setting in particular especially because you're generally not wearing that much clothing yeah and also just being mindful of language right even if I think you know not every poll instructor is gonna you know Go the whole nine yards to remove you know as many common triggers as possible I think that there is a certain expectation that you are an adult and are being treated with respect and also if you're not an adult you're still being treated with respect right it's still important that you were given autonomy even things like I mean this is just like broader as well like students can go to the bathroom in the middle of class without asking permission yeah like just letting people notice their own body and react accordingly and giving them space to do that I think is something that you know as a whole student you should be able to expect wherever you are training goal yeah and it it's tough because I think there are still spaces that like instructors would get mad if you left the class to go to the bathroom or if you you know stop doing the pose because you didn't want to do it but like everyone else was doing it and like I know I've had instructors get mad at me when I like say I don't want a physical assist and I I think it's difficult sometimes in certain areas to find instructors who are informed but I really encourage people to like look for that and also just feel empowered in themselves to you know wherever you are to do what you need to do to take care of yourself you don't have to suffer to exercise or do your fun activity that you like you can find other options and you you should if you're not having a good time this is my general advice to everyone about exercise just in general for everyone yeah for sure and I think it's tough because I mean our culture is really full and I think even from that young age of like what I know a lot of people had that experience in gym class where they were kind of like almost forced to do things that they really didn't want to do and I think that that impacts people later on of like they feel like they have to push through stuff absolutely like Fitness instructors will say with a straight face no pain no gain you should not be encouraging your clients to um I think that pain is normal I feel the same way because I think that I mean especially with pain like that's such a big indicator of like maybe it's time that you should stop yeah and I mean there's certainly some degree of necessary pain for specific movements in poll but your instructor should be clear about like what type of pain or discomfort is expected and natural and also I could give you the option to take breaks and give the option to say no and give you modifications that are not going to have that you know feeling for you I know somebody once reached out to me and was like you know given my past and history I cannot do poll sits for me they are straight up triggering I'm never going to be able to do that so if that's a student that you know you have give them other options so they can still have a fun time and enjoy themselves and have something to do without forcing them to do something that is actively harmful to them yeah for sure and I think that's so beautiful just I mean for life but also for sexuality and to me speaks to the way that like pull or even like yoga classes can you know impact our sexuality lives by like really helping us to know that you know we can listen to our body and our we are the experts of our body like we are the only ones that know what our bodies are feeling and we have that power and that autonomy to make choices about what we want to do with our bodies and also that we deserve to be with people and in spaces that really support those choices and you know celebrate and honor them absolutely speaking of people who celebrate not of those choices if folks wanted to work with you or follow you or find out more about you where could they do that yeah so my website at kelseybit.com and then on Instagram I'm at free which is k-e-a-b-r-i and I also have a sub stack which is where I write different essays about sexuality stuff and also where my podcast is located and where I'm going to be also publishing some different like poems and essays from other people around sexuality and so that is called the Curious [ __ ] that one may not be in the show notes but the certainly the link to your website and Instagram will be and I'm sure you can find it from there yep before we wrap up is there anything else you'd like to plug or like a recommendation or something you just like that people should know about well the I'm teaching at drama informed yoga class online at 10 A.M Pacific on Sundays and then in a few weeks I'm launching my more like sexuality based class which is will be on Tuesdays at 4 pm Pacific and so you can find information about those on my website all right fabulous so if you're looking for some trauma-informed online yoga slash sexuality education but check it out and I'll put the the links in the description all right thank you so much for joining me today Kelsey this has been a great conversation I think lots of food for thought and you know if these are things that you who are listening have not thought about previously they don't feel bad about it don't beat yourself up for being like Oh I could have said no one left this whole time gosh darn it you know just be nice to yourself and yeah embrace a new way of thinking about yourself and your body perhaps yes definitely thank you Rosie thank you I'm great and I will talk to you all later bye thanks so much for joining today pole dancer this podcast is a production of slink through strength the inclusive evidence-based online poll studio so if you're looking for a place to train either off pull conditioning and flexibility or learning pool tricks and refining your pull movement you can find us online at slinkthroughstrength.com